I’m not sure if I have enough of a readership to get a decent number of comments on this thread, but I’m going to try, as I think that this post is one that will benefit far more from comments than from whatever I might post.
My mother – who is pretty good about not sending forwards – sent me a forward with the text below.
I’m an atheist, and I was a bit irritated by the title and the first four questions. I don’t like the idea that questions like this reinforce the story that a god made people. Although that only really matters if this question & answer set up is real – I always doubt these things.
However, I left in the irritating title & first four questions for the sake of completeness, and also because I actually quite like the idea of people made out of string! But maybe that’s just me?
I’ll let you read it before I subject you to any more of my own thoughts (the emphasis is all mine, though):
WHY GOD MADE MUMS…
Answers given by 2nd grade school children to the following questions:
Q1. Why did God make mothers?
1. She’s the only one who knows where the sticky tape is.
2. Mostly to clean the house.
3. To help us out of there when we were getting born.Q2. How did God make mothers?
1. He used dirt, just like for the rest of us.
2. Magic plus super powers and a lot of stirring.
3. God made my Mum just the same like he made me. He just used bigger parts.Q3. What ingredients are mothers made of ?
1. God makes mothers out of clouds and angel hair and everything nice in the world and one dab of mean.
2. They had to get their start from men’s bones. Then they mostly use string, I think.Q4. Why did God give you your mother and not some other Mum?
1. We’re related.
2. God knew she likes me a lot more than other people’s Mums like me.Q5. What kind of little girl was your Mum?
1. My Mum has always been my Mum and none of that other stuff.
2. I don’t know because I wasn’t there, but my guess would be pretty bossy.
3. They say she used to be nice.Q6. What did Mum need to know about Dad before she married him?
1. His last name.
2. She had to know his background. Like is he a crook? Does he get drunk on beer?
3. Does he make at least $800 a year? Did he say NO to drugs and YES to chores?Q7. Why did your Mum marry your Dad?
1. My Dad makes the best spaghetti in the world. And my Mum eats a lot.
2. She got too old to do anything else with him.
3. My Grandma says that Mum didn’t have her thinking cap on.Q8. Who’s the boss at your house?
1. Mum doesn’t want to be boss, but she has to because Dad’s such an idiot.
2. Mum. You can tell by room inspection. She sees the stuff under the bed.
3. I guess Mum is, but only because she has a lot more to do than DadQ9. What’s the difference between Mums & Dads?
1. Mums work at work and work at home and Dads just go to work at work.
2. Mums know how to talk to teachers without scaring them.
3. Dads are taller & stronger, but Mums have all the real power ’cause that’s who you got to ask if you want to sleep over at your friend’s
4. Mums have magic, they make you feel better without medicine.Q10. What does your Mum do in her spare time?
1. Mothers don’t have spare time.
2. To hear her talk, she pays bills all day long.Q11. What would it take to make your Mum perfect?
1. On the inside she’s already perfect. Outside, I think some kind of plastic surgery.
2. You know, her hair. I’d dye it, maybe blue.Q12. If you could change one thing about your Mum, what would it be?
1. She has this weird thing about me keeping my room clean. I’d get rid of that.
2. I’d make my Mum smarter. Then she would know it was my sister who did it and not me.
3. I would like her to get rid of those invisible eyes on the back of her head.
Not sure about you, but my reaction to this was basically: ouch, ouch, hahahaha OUCH (etc etc).
My overarching thought: and thus, are gender stereotypes born.
The bits that I’ve bolded in the quote are, as you may have figured, basically the parts that give me pause in terms of gender (and other!) stereotypes.
I’ve bolded all of Q6 because of the unspoken assumptions behind it: (1) all kids have one mum (no more, no less); (2) all kids have one dad (ditto); (3) the mum and dad are married to each other; (4) mum needs to know stuff about dad before they get married – but all dad needs to know is that mum’s a woman (because anything else that’s relevant is contained in the definition of “woman”).
But in general, essentially what bothers me is the picture of A Mother that we have here: she’s the one in charge of the house (while Dad works); she’s the one in charge of the kids (the implication being that Dad’s just a playmate); she’s mostly nice, but the fact that she’s in charge of the house and the kids means she’s occasionally mean (ie teaching you how to do the right thing is mean); she’s always on duty.
Plus there’s that weird power dynamic thing, contained in Q8 (about “who’s the boss”), and then answer #3 to Q9. I don’t really have time or space to unpack all of that, but it seems to me that it feeds directly into that awful trope that women have power because they control men. On the one hand, it’s nice to think that kids maybe do feel that women have some real power, by virtue of the picture of the world that they get. On the other hand, is that really what the answers to these questions means?
And the even bigger objection: the question assumes that there has to be “a boss” in the first place!
Obviously, even if this thing is real, the picture painted is coloured by whoever selected the questions & answers to include in the email that got sent around. So my objections have to be read in that light as well.
As I said above, this sort of thing seems to me to be more appropriate to play with in comments – so, if you’re out there, have at it!
(I don’t know the provenance of the list – is this one real? Assuming that is is:)
I really like it that I’m made of “everything nice in the world and one dab of mean.”!
It really struck me that a couple of these kids see the inequality in a traditionally gendered model of labour very clearly. Not only are they not taking their mother’s domestic work for granted, but they’ve identified that it is labour, real labour, and that it often takes more hours than the person who is said to be ‘working’ in the family:
“I guess Mum is, but only because she has a lot more to do than Dad”
“Mums work at work and work at home and Dads just go to work at work.”
I’m stuck on a reaction of what a weird set of questions. Being in possession of a 2nd grade child myself I’m quite tempted to run the questions by him and see what he comes up with.
I’m inordinately amused by the sticky tape response because I’m often asked where it is but I never know, and nor does any other member of the family (though I did find the good dispenser in my daughter’s bedroom last night).
The “who’s the boss” question gets right up my nose, I find the assumption of a power hierarchy between adults in a family as being the norm quite disturbing and depressing.
Will come back to this after I’ve quizzed the small boy :-)
I just tried this on my kid. At first, he objected, saying “But God isn’t real.” I asked him to imagine he believed in a god or gods, and answer that way.
He’s pretty concrete, and very big on birthday ‘hints’ right now. Age six.
Q1. Why did God make mothers?
To protect kids.
Q2. How did God make mothers?
With power.
Q3. What ingredients are mothers made of ?
Skin, flesh, and bones.
Q4. Why did God give you your mother and not some other Mum?
Because I was born by this mother, like, I was born by you and that means you’re my mother.
Q5. What kind of little girl was your Mum?
A naughty little girl.
Q6. What did Mum need to know about Dad before she married him?
That he was good, not evil. You know, not a supervillain.
Q7. Why did your Mum marry your Dad?
I have NO idea.
Q8. Who’s the boss at your house?
George [the dog], because he protects our house. Well, he’s the boss when we go out. When we’re at home, it’s Daddy, because he’s the oldest. Apart from Granddad.
Q9. What’s the difference between Mums & Dads?
Mums are female, and Dads are male. And they look different. Men have beards and women don’t. [prompted: do they do anything different?] No, nothing at all.
Q10. What does your Mum do in her spare time?
I don’t know. You’re my mum, you’re the only one who knows.
Q11. What would it take to make your Mum perfect?
If she gives me more toys.
Q12. If you could change one thing about your Mum, what would it be?
To make her give me the biggest Lego Agents box.
thanks to both of you for kicking it off :)
I’m drive-by replying, so to speak, and I’m sure I’ll have more to say later, but it’s interesting to hear Lauredhel’s reaction in particular, as being quite opposite to mine.
I’ve got to admit that I also had that thought, and agree it’s a positive, then it got outweighed by the other parts of my reaction and I forgot it when I started writing.
Also, while I agree it’s a good thing that kids see domestic work as WORK, and all the other aspects of L’s comment, it still struck me that they see that work as their mother’s work alone, not work that should be done by both parents (indeed, by the whole household). Not that that is a reflection or indictment of the kids, just an indication of what is seen as normal (again, maybe by the person who put it together if it’s real, or who made it up if it’s not).
Mim, I look forward to hearing what your 2nd-grader has to say! And yeah, that family hierarchy really irked me, too.
oh, as you might guess, I was composing and so cross-posted. L, that’s gold. Your kid seems very logical!
I’m tempted to ask whether the ‘i have NO idea’ was said incredulously, or more as in: why are you asking ME? But that would probably be OT ;)
Tom turns 8 in October, here are his answers:
Q1. Why did God make mothers? God didn’t actually make mothers, evolution did.
Q2. How did God make mothers? Same answer as the one above.
Q3. What ingredients are mothers made of ? Lovingness, kindness, huggles (mischievous giggles) and laughs.
Q4. Why did God give you your mother and not some other Mum? Evolution made my mum the way she is!!! (By now we have a hint of exasperation) I bet whoever wrote these questions believes in God.
Q5. What kind of little girl was your Mum? A nice, intelligent little girl.
Q6. What did Mum need to know about Dad before she married him? Whether he was going to be a good husband.
Q7. Why did your Mum marry your Dad? No idea.
Q8. Who’s the boss at your house? Mummy (Why?) You just are. (I couldn’t get him to elaborate.)
Q9. What’s the difference between Mums & Dads? Dads are not so good to have kisses and cuddles in bed with ‘cause of their beards.
Q10. What does your Mum do in her spare time? Twitter, look on people’s blogs.
Q11. What would it take to make your Mum perfect? Nothing, you’re already perfect.
Q12. If you could change one thing about your Mum, what would it be? Nothing. (He even came back a few minutes later to say “Seriously, there’s nothing I would change about you, you’re perfect just the way you are.” I told him he was a crawler. And gorgeous. And that I’d keep him.)
I don’t think my reaction was opposite to yours – it was meant as a “both/and”, not a “but”.
“it still struck me that they see that work as their mother’s work alone, not work that should be done by both parents “
Well… I don’t know quite whether we know that from these data (or whether these are real data in the first place). Were they asked how they think it should be rather than how it was; and have these particular kids had access to any other domestic model?
I pressed the Lad a bit more on the difference between Mums and Dads, and he didn’t come up with any domestic-work differences at all. The “who’s the boss?” answer only came after pressing, and then he defaulted to perhaps a common mode at school or amongst peers, jostling about who’s oldest, instead of coming up with anything gender-specific or specific to our situation.
Which isn’t to say that this isn’t a problem, just an interesting observation that he doesn’t seem to have yet picked up a “Mums do domestic labour, Dads work outside the home” societal expectation yet. And this despite the fact that I am at home full-time – though he sees his Dad doing far more cooking and cleaning and laundry than he sees me do.
The “I have NO idea” was thoroughly jocular in tone, as was the “naughty little girl” jibe.
Lauredhel, fair enough. I should have expressed it more as what you focused on was an implication that was almost opposite to the one I focused on. I agree it’s both/and. I’m going to call it late-on-a-long-day-that-hasn’t-finished-yet thing ;)
Re limitations of the data: yes, very true!
I guess one thing I should have made more clear (both in my OP and my comment above) is my *headdesking* is not so much about “kids think this” as “this is the way it’s being presented by whoever put this together”, whether “whoever put this together” refers to the person(s) who (if it’s real) wrote the Qs in the first place and/or selected the answers to report OR (if it’s not real) made it all up.
Hmm, re-reading my comment in particular: that really was expressed as “kids think this”, so my apologies for assuming the entire world could read my mind and know what I intended to say! ;)
Mim: your child sounds absolutely adorable – and I LOVE his answer to what Mums are made of! I don’t know if I would have said that about my Mum when I was 6, but I would now! (I quite possibly would have said the bit about hugs, but when I think *now* about my Mum and laughter, what I remember is the laughter we’ve shared in my late teenage/adult life – we must have spent time laughing together when I was little, too, it’s just not what I recall most strongly when I think about laughter and my Mum. This is possibly because the way my Mum and I laugh together is bound up so integrally with the way we relate in the first place.)
TT: are kids ever too old to play this game? ;) I seriously thought about answering the questions and sending it back to my mother. Then I got distracted by my general annoyance.
While I’ve been writing this, Ariane has also posted a comment. Really, really good point about problematic things being problematic only if left unexamined. And another great point in your last para, to which I can only say: yes! yes! That’s it!
I couldn’t quite put my finger on why it bothered me that kids might see their mothers as powerful (all-powerful?) within the home, when in some ways, that must be a bit of a nice balance to what is often the place in the rest of the world. I think what Ariane has said in that last para is pretty much it.
(I’m really enjoying this conversation, including the answers that your kids are giving. So thanks, everyone.)
Lauredhel, your kid always cracks me up, I love it that the dog figures so prominently in your family power structure :-) I did think that Tom might come up with a flesh, blood and bones response but he was a bit focused on being complimentary to me.
None of my kids seem to have internalised the women’s work/men’s work thing, perhaps because despite my 11 years of SAHM they’ve often seen Adam doing just as much (if not more) of the housework as me.
heh – some great answers there. My kids are too old to play this with, I think.
Answers I Liked:
Q2. everything nice in the world and one dab of mean.
Q4. They say she used to be nice
Q6. Did he say NO to drugs and YES to chores?
Q12. I’d make my Mum smarter. Then she would know it was my sister who did it and not me.
Most of the rest was, as you say, ouch ouch ouch.
Oh, this made me think that I should probably indicate some of the answers that I actually liked.
As well as the “made from string” (but not the first sentence of that answer!), I’ve got to admit that I quite liked all of the answers to Q7, especially when imagined as said, very seriously, by a 6 year old. (Answer #1 especially sounds like a pretty good reason to marry someone! Well, to become their flatmate, perhaps. ;) )
Q11, answer #2, too – mostly because I just cannot see my mum with blue hair.
I didn’t dislike all the others, but those ones in particular made me crack up.
Ben, aged 6.
Q1. Why did God make mothers? So we can have people
Q2. How did God make mothers? His really good sort of magic
Q3. What ingredients are mothers made of ? Bones
Q4. Why did God give you your mother and not some other Mum? Because she looks a little bit the same as me.
Q5. What kind of little girl was your Mum? Curious.
Q6. What did Mum need to know about Dad before she married him? What he was like
Q7. Why did your Mum marry your Dad? So you could have a husband (questioning)
Q8. Who’s the boss at your house? Daddy (why?) Oh no you. (why?) Because you know more.
Q9. What’s the difference between Mums & Dads? Girls and boys.
Q10. What does your Mum do in her spare time? Knitting
Q11. What would it take to make your Mum perfect? Learn a lot.
Q12. If you could change one thing about your Mum, what would it be?
Yelling.
Interestingly, he has been telling me for some time that he doesn’t believe in god, but then he’s a rule follower, so I guess he tried his best to answer the questions as presented. I like the idea that I married his father to have a husband – it was said much the same way as I might do something to have a hat.
Rather damning about the yelling – didn’t realise I did it that much. At least he doesn’t want more *stuff*.
When it comes to answer #1 from Q9, it strikes me that it is only a problem if it is left unexamined. We talk about the fact that most mums do more housework than most dads, and Ben has vowed to be as responsible for housework and kid care as his partner. (At the moment he is planning on marrying a girl, but that has been fluid in the past.) We have also discussed the fact that most dads now are better than their dads before them. When you don’t have the optimal situation being modeled universally, you have to spend a lot of time talking about why it should be different to have any hope of the next generation not mimicking the last.
And yes, the boss question gives me the irrits too. Ben was mostly confused by that one, apparently he believes that knowledge is power. :) Actually, though, when it comes to kid raising, he’s probably not far from the mark, because I do most of the reading and chatting and other means of determining the best way to deal with the current issues. This area is probably one of the last to be shared in many relationships. We are pretty even when it comes to parenting implementation, but I do a great deal more of the policy making.
This leads into the power dynamic you mention too. Kids often grow up believing that women hold a lot of power in the domestic sphere, and that it is unassailable. Boys grow up believing that they have no place in domestic policy making, so they don’t engage in it by default. It’s probably something I need to address more actively in our house.
This is really rather adorable, especially with all the feminist analysis. Must try it out on Lauca. Note to self.
[…] September 2, 2009 by blue milk For Wallaby. […]
[…] me!). I saw these questions in the mumsy meme post on blue milk and she got them from Out of the mouths of… on Wallaby. I modified some of the questions because the references to God would have made no sense […]
Jo, I got here by following the trail of breadcrumbs through two other (popular) blogs, so you’re getting noticed, not to mention this is comment #15.
The stereotyping and use of God might be annoying, but parents can still get a lot out of asking the same questions after modifying them to suit their own beliefs and style.
I agree with “ouch, ouch, hahahaha, ouch”!
Thanks :) To be honest, it wasn’t a call for more readers, just an observation. I am perfectly happy having a tiny little blog in a tiny little corner of the internet. Comments are always welcome, of course :)
Having said all that: I always did wonder how memes got started – and I’m rather amazed that I appear to have started one!